Good food in pubs
Guardian writer Tony Naylor took an absolute pounding from you lot when I linked to one of his articles recently. He'd set out to praise lager, but oddly decided to slag off cask conditioned ale along the way. Anyway, I'm sure he's not too upset that his scribblings met with some negative reaction. Sometimes, that's just what a writer wants.
In his latest piece, Naylor asks "What makes a great gastropub?" I disagree with the majority of what he's written - again. He reels off a list of idiosyncratically "Olde English" dishes that he reckons should form the basis of a pub menu. He thinks pub food should be "cheap" (less than £10 for a meal and a drink). He obviously has no idea of the economics of running a proper kitchen in a good pub. Then he opines that "if you have to book, it's obviously not anything that could be described as a pub". A popular place will get busy at peak times - when you're most likely to want a table - so that seems like a daft point of view.
As far as I can see, Naylor doesn't really see pubs and truly good food as going together. For him, you have to go to a restaurant for that. Not true, chum. Some of us want a fantastic meal, but would rather enjoy it in the informal and convivial setting of a pub, alongside others who might only be there for a pint.
Those of you who are CAMRA members (and you all should be, join here) will soon be receiving the newly revamped BEER magazine. Inside, there's a head-to-head discussion on food in pubs between myself and fellow writer Melissa Cole. I take a hard line on the term "gastropub" - I've come to dislike it intensely - but I support great food in great pubs.
16 comments:
An observation really. I ask this genuinely. Is the gastropub an overwhelmingly London thing?
Tandleman - many a village pub around the country has become a gastropub just to survive (although I do concede its often in more affluent areas). A personal favourite of mine is The Hare in Loddington, Northamptonshire (does great game!).
On the subject of the article I agree witht the vast majority of the sentiment expressed. There are establishments out there that have draft beer but only allow diners to sit at tables. Seats need to be booked and dining is of the 3-course variety. These are restaurants
My understanding of a gastropub (at least the ones i choose to frequent) includes good cask ale and a main course of no more than £12 that stands on its own as a satisfying meal. I'm thinking of places like The Weir in Brentford, The Fox and Hound in Battersea or The White Horse on Parsons Green. In many of these places there are gastropub faves like Sausage and Mash, Steak and Kidney Pudding and the ubiquitous burger as well as slightly more adventurous dishes.
I personally prefer to book but it should be the kind of place that you can just turn up to.
The gastropub is a relatively new phenomenon and does not really include pub and thai food combos or places that are primarily boozers that also do good sandwiches (The Wenlock). I don't think he's saying that you can't get good food in a pub - just that you don't go to a gastropub for the same kind of dining experience that you go to a Michelin starred restaurant for.
I personally know when to go to a gastropub and when to go to a restaurant - for two very different experiences. I also know that I can go to places like The Rake or Microbar for an interesting booze-up.
BTW - £10 for a meal and drink in London is hard to find...maybe £12-13.
How about a Gastropub map to complement the beer map? Places that have acceptable to good cask ale availability/quality but are complemented by great food?
Ryan
Interesting, but I wonder if Tandleman usn't correct and it's more of a geographic thing?
What you describe aren't gastropubs as I understand them. They are simply pubs that do good food. From your criteria there are plenty of pubs round Manchester, and indeed, my neck of the woods, that would be classed as gastropubs. Except that they aren't called that. That title is reserved for much rarer beasts.
Have a look at
www.thethreefishes.com/index.htm
One of my dining spots, it's classed as one of the best in the country and is what I understand as a gastropub.
Tyson you are right and Stonch in his article emphasises that difference.
You end up citing three pubs in London as gastropubs. QED?
Sorry I should have addressed the question to Ryan
Tandleman, it depends what a "gastropub" is - and as I say, it's a term I dislike, so I'm less than keen to go into that!
I think food-led pubs are more common in affluent areas - London and the South in particular. However you can find them everywhere. For example, my dad - who has a very old-fashioned view about food in pubs - complains to me about pubs in South Shields that he believes are only interested in dining customers these days.
Just to throw something into the mix here: the tied house system encourages food-led pubs. If the margins on beer (and sometimes wines and spirits too) are low due to the tied arrangement, you're more likely to see dry sales to boost profits.
Ryan: "How about a Gastropub map to complement the beer map? Places that have acceptable to good cask ale availability/quality but are complemented by great food?"
Heh, that'd be interesting. I'm ashamed to say I'm not that well educated about food - I wish I was.
Reading the article it says: "The choice of ales, meanwhile should be wide enough to bring a warm glow to any Camra member's liver."
Then look at the picture of Heston's "seriously brilliant" Hinds Head and note the lack of choice of real ales: Greene King IPA and Abbot (I think) is all they have...
So this week mR Islington says:
*Eat and drink for under a tenner
*Freehouse
*Range of ales
*Retain fruit machines
=Wetherspoons. He's telling us to go and eat in Wetherspoons, I shit you not.
I don't like the idea of pubs where you can make reservations, it has ruined the atmosphere of a great many pubs that i've known.
I like eaters and drinkers being able to sit together and being treated with respect.
I like pubs that do great food. I also like pubs that do promote and have pride in British local produce and have fairly traditional menus. For traditional I mean British, English food, well cooked. For this I don't just mean the shepherds pie, anyone who has researched the food and recipes of the country knows that there is a lot more to offer than we are being offered.
I hate those generic menus with meals made in factories.
I'd like there to be no need to use the term gastropub as it sounds extemely wanky.
^^^^^^
This.
I can never understand the objection to pubs doing decent food. I'd understand it if it was a case of lots of good ale pubs being shut down to become gastropubs (whatever that actually means, I'm confused now) - but it's not, at least not in London. The pubs I've been to recently that have good food also have good ale - I'm thinking the Charles Lamb, the Duke of Cambridge, the Dove, even the Pembury.
And you often get this "why don't you go to a restaurant if you want food". Simple. Pubs are more relaxing, self-service and (duh!) the beer is better.
It's not an issue in Germany - almost every pub does some kind of food. Bread and cheese/meat platters are a great idea for soaking up the booze and having something light.
Things that I don't like though: (a) any pressure that you have to eat - then it's not a pub, it's a restaurant
(b) microwaved ready-meals, which is the only way to deliver Tony Naylor's "drink and meal for under a tenner"
Some good stuff in the comment from Anonymous above. I like the distinction between genuinely British food and the kind of thoughtless "Shepherd's Pie and Ploughman's" fare introduced by pubs in the 70s.
Boak is spot on with her objection to "any pressure that you have to eat" in a pub. The place I run is food led at lunchtimes but I'm absolutely adamant that those who just want to drink are more than welcome. Yes, you might be more profitable if every seat in the house is occupied by a diner - but if you want to run that kind of business, don't call it a pub.
is it just too much to ask to want something decent to eat along with a decent pint? It seems that on occasion, this country seems to think that the two have to be seperate, and categorized.
I've got a lot to say, and may later (after the deadline I'm dodging by reading this is met), but for now: I friggin' hate "gastropub" as a word.
My impression of the gastropub is that it has a bizarrely precious take on food, and seems to be a London thing?
Some of the best meals I've had in England have been in pubs that simply do food around dinner time, and when it's all eaten up it's gone. In these pubs the cook will often come out and see how you like it. This never happens in London. There's a pride that goes into the dishes rather than snobbery or pretension which I associate with the gastropub. Like so many things in London it seems to be a branding thing used to convince people that a humble pub meal can be posh if it includes rocket and costs the moon.
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